Let's speak english together !

[chrismarie31]

Happy new year to eveybody!

 

[sarah75]

Happy new year to eveybody!

happy new year !!! :angel:

 

[helena]

No needs to top up your bts to a degree level.

I fully agree on this point...
Many young graduated students are convinced that hooking up as much diplomas as they can will automatically bring them the job they dreamt for, with the corresponding high salary (anyway, higher than the Bac + 2/3 holders). They prefer to believe in T.V reports in which an over-graduated student is earning thousands $ a month and then, they will start being contaminated by the diploma desease. They will not listen to you anymore whatever you say, above all you are “only” a BTS graduate. Even worse, they could consider you as being jealous. T.V reports put their mind at ease and confort their views, while buisness schools are likely to pile it on.

Consequently, in real life, these over-confident students become disappointed once armed with their bags crowded of degrees : “Where are these prestigious firms supposed to run after me offering terrific job together with fantastic wages and life ?” “ Where do they hide themselves ? ... They don’t exist anywhere anymore except on the T.V program. Just like my stubborn brother who had to bear the consequencies and had been ejected from his train blundly. Long time elapsed before he realizes the true value of his Bac + 6 in Business...a chocolate medal.

 

[9millimetres]

They prefer to believe in T.V reports in which an over-graduated student is earning thousands $ a month and then, they will start being contaminated by the diploma desease. They will not listen to you anymore whatever you say, above all you are “only” a BTS graduate. Even worse, they could consider you as being jealous. T.V reports put their mind at ease and confort their views, while buisness schools are likely to pile it on.

Damn right. Like a powerful new car or an architect-designed house, a degree or a post-graduate degree has become a luxury that everyone wants. But when everybody has something, that thing becomes worthless. Gold is sought after because it is expensive and hard to find, but if everybody changed their attitude to gold, its value would drop. In the same way, education, like the currency of a bankrupt country, is becoming devalued as more people have degrees or is graduated from a business school. They should be chosing, gaining experience over holding graduate. Just a thought. :happy: It takes ever-higher qualifications to get a job. I'm talkin' about the amount of business schools. Once a degree-holder was respected and listened to. Now he or she is just another job-seeker or employee.
One effect of the rush towards degrees is that knowledge becomes less important. It's the same for business schools. Other factors, such as influence, are more central in getting a job or a promotion when everyone has a qualification. The amount of graduates people from Business school is very enormous. Some from good business one, other from bloody ones.A further point is that people lose respect for themselves. Since everybody has a degree, even degree-holders feel that what they have is almost worthless.

 

[Grenat]

Many young graduated students are convinced that hooking up as much diplomas as they can will automatically bring them the job they dreamt for, with the corresponding high salary (anyway, higher than the Bac + 2/3 holders). They prefer to believe in T.V reports in which an over-graduated student is earning thousands $ a month and then, they will start being contaminated by the diploma desease. They will not listen to you anymore whatever you say, above all you are “only” a BTS graduate. Even worse, they could consider you as being jealous. T.V reports put their mind at ease and confort their views, while buisness schools are likely to pile it on.

It is so true, unfortunately ... It's frightening the way young people are obsessed by what they listen ... and above all what they think!!
Someone that has passed his "BTS" is able to climb the professionnal ladder at the same level as a "bac +6", even though they don't begin at the same wage! All depends on the person, his personnality and his experiences!!
I was also contaminated by the diploma desease, as you said, but now as I'm working ("en alternance&quot I can see that overgraduated students are often refused because they cost too much and are not experienced enough!!! that's why the rate of unemplyement is higher for "bac+4/+5" than for "bac+2/+3"

So students, stop being so full of prejudices :tickedoff:


(and sorry for my mistakes :closedeyes: )

 

[9millimetres]

It is so true, unfortunately ... It's frightening the way young people are obsessed by what they listen ... and above all what they think!!
Someone who passed his "BTS" is able to climb the professionnal ladder as fast as a "bac +6", even so they don't begin at the same wage! All depends on the person, his personnality and his experiences!!
I was also contaminated by the diploma desease, as you said, but now as I'm working (vocational training) I can see that overgraduated students have never been offered a job because they cost too much and are not experienced enough!!! that's why the rate of unemplyement is higher for "bac+4/+5" than for "bac+2/+3" :dacc:

So students, stop being so full of prejudices  :tickedoff:


(and sorry for my mistakes :closedeyes: )

http://www.duperrin.com/2005/05/24/chomage-des-jeunes-diplomes-experiences-vecues/
http://www.journaldunet.com/management/0509/050998_jeunes_pro.shtml

I really find that it is a huge waste. The motivated young persons work well, hold certificates after years of effort, Firms remain closed. They only hire very experienced people who have already shown at professional level. My point of view, students shouldnot let themselves seduced by business school. It's waste of time n' money.

 

[Grenat]

Someone who passed his "BTS" is able to climb the professionnal ladder as fast as a "bac +6"

Oooops :angel: long time I haven't written in English

http://www.duperrin.com/2005/05/24/chomage-des-jeunes-diplomes-experiences-vecues/
http://www.journaldunet.com/management/0509/050998_jeunes_pro.shtml

I really find that it is a huge waste. The motivated young persons work well, hold certificates after years of effort, Firms remain closed. They only hire very experienced people who have already shown at professional level. My point of view, students shouldnot let themselves seduced by business school. It's waste of time n' money.

Especially a waste of money !!! When I think that a business school costs from 5 000 € to 9 000 € a year, it makes me mad !!! :tickedoff: What do people do if they want to go there but cannot afford it??

 

[9millimetres]

What do people do if they want to go there but cannot afford it??

Why do people undertake studies in Business if they can't afford'em.

Because people think that, undertaking long studies in Business school will boost their job prospect with a 60 k€ as golden hello. In the end, they fail to get job and when they hook up one job they don't earn what they excepted to earn.

 

[Grenat]

What do people do if they want to go there but cannot afford it?? mad
Why do people undertake studies in Business if they can't afford'em.

Sorry but I don't understand my mistake :embarassed:

 

[helena]

Regarding some BTS holders (AST or CI among other!) who are claiming  that  the training they ‘ve got didn’t enable them to get a good knowledge of Enghish (not necessarily in this topic!), I would like to say keeping or improving your English depends basically on you and your supposedly motivations. Objectively, diploma cannot be taken as responsible of the (so shameful) level they have today...
They have only got themselves to blame. It’s mainly due to a lack of practice and interest after studies (so please, stop charging the diplomas, and be a bit responsible, or stop washing your hands on your degree). Level in any skills areas are largely different from a graduate to another one, even if they sat for the same degree (...in computer performance, French writing, second language, business and so on ). Why it would be different when it deals with languages ? But training guarantees a minimum anyways.

 

[helena]

Another interesting point, I agree with those who are convinced that going overseas is one of the best ways to speak a language fluently, but on one condition, “please, speak it a little bit before” (I hope Millimetre has agreed). Why am I  convinced of that ? Even after more than 20 years spent in France, my previous neighbours seemed to suffer sharply when they can’t escape from answering in French, for instance, in a quarterly meeting between Parents-Teachers in which their 9 years child act as interpreter in spite of himself.
Why such a situation? At the begining, when they moved here, they didn’t know any single word in French, then they were fed up with French quickly. They mostly stayed with those sharing their native language and they ignored all the opportunities to improve their French and be open to others (reading, translation,TV except native country chanels,...). today, they regretfully don’t speak French correctly even if the mother is taking French courses for beginner ...  But she never accused the training ...unlike some BTS holders  :arrow2:

 

[9millimetres]

Another interesting point, I agree with those who are convinced that going overseas is one of the best ways to speak a language fluently, but on one condition, “please, speak it a little bit before” (I hope Millimetre has agreed). Why am I  convinced of that ? Even after more than 20 years spent in France, my previous neighbours seemed to suffer sharply when they can’t escape from answering in French, for instance, in a quarterly meeting between Parents-Teachers in which their 9 years child act as interpreter in spite of himself.
Why such a situation? At the begining, when they moved here, they didn’t know any single word in French, then they were fed up with French quickly. They mostly stayed with those sharing their native language and they ignored all the opportunities to improve their French and be open to others (reading, translation,TV except native country chanels,...). today, they regretfully don’t speak French correctly even if the mother is taking French courses for beginner ...  But she never accused the training ...unlike some BTS holders  :arrow2:

We’ve got two topics. One is what the graduate value. Is diploma worthless?
the second one is, how to improve your communications skills?

For the first one I’ve already answered. For the second one. I agree witu Helena. To improve your communication skills you gotta take the plunge, puckle your courage to study overseas. I’m learnin’ Spanish as my level sucks n;’ I plan to go either in Spain or Ecuador. Dunno yet. Now it ain’t cos I’ll overseas for a year that by Spanish will marvellously improved. As someone said previously, it’ll depend on me. But I’m far from being an inner person, so I think I’ll sharpen a bit my Spanish.
Is the BTS a good graduate. Surely but some BTs such as CI or AST, sorry Helena, are far from lettin’ people improvin’ their communication skills. 6 months work placement ain’t enough as simple as that. On the other hand, it can prepare you for further studies abroad. Graduate student should consider studying abroad and make the most of what they’ve learned instead of whining. Just a thought.

 

[kathounette]

I agree with you, Helena,to say that to go abroad is one of the best ways to speak a language fluently and that a condition is to speak the language a little bit before.
It is really difficult to learn a language without knowing a word before.

For instance, I'm in Yemen for around 6 months and I didn't know a single word in Arabic before ! I have no time to take some lessons for the moment ("because of my job&quot so I just know a few words and I am not able to have a conversation in Arabic whereas I really want to do it...
Even if I am motivated I don't succeed to learn the language by myself. So, I just learn a few words each week and I'm waiting to have time to take some lessons.

Moreover, 9millimeters, I agree with you when you said that the BTS doesn't allow students to improve their language in a 6 weeks work placement, even if they are motivated.
I was motivated but to be integrated in the social life 6 weeks is not enough neither to speak fluently.

 

[CAROLE111984]

Need to speak english !

Hi everybody !

I'm Carole, a student in BTS Assistante de Direction....
I live in Le Mans, France. I'm 23.
I really like speaking english but I need to meet some people who likes that too and who wants to improve their english !
If you want to speak more with me, in english, don't hesitate to send me a message !

Thanks a lot !
Carole

 

[9millimetres]

Need to speak english !

Hi everybody !

I'm Carole, a student in BTS Assistante de Direction....
I live in Le Mans, France. I'm 23.
I really like speaking english but I need to meet some people who likes that too and who wants to improve their english !
If you want to speak more with me, in english, don't hesitate to send me a message !

Thanks a lot !
Carole

You should post somethin' interesting, if you want people to reply to you. Dunno if there are english speakers in your area. What about your school, are there any brits, yankees, aussies or kiwis out there? Just a thought. :wink2: What will be your next step once graduated? Just curious.

 

[9millimetres]

I might be off topic# but it's something I'd like to talk about.
You can mark it down on your calendar and take it to the bank that Barack Obama will be the next President and First Black President. I don’t want you to get confused and think that I am supporting Obama as a matter of fact I ain't US citizen but I will tell you straight-up that I would vote for him if I could. I might be contradictory. Don't care. He got nice ideas. I could have several series of posts about “Why Not”, however that’s not my agenda, purpose or season. Here are the “Obama” momentum facts:
Obama spanks Hillary in Iowa
Bush, Gore and Kerry all won the Iowa Caucuses
According to polls, a large percent of the U.S. is Anti-Bush and ready for change
Republicans don’t have a chance this election, due to Anti-Bush sentiment
Obama attracts a broad demographic of voters
He’s talking moderation red state/blue state, republican/democrat
He has the sexy, Hollywood, articulate and minority factor…
He’s got the “O-Factor”, that would be Oprah.

But when talk shifts to assessing his chances of actually reaching the White House, the African Americans I talk to get kind of a sad, head-shaking, you-have-no- idea look in their eye that says, to me, "America will never let a black man be president. Never." Can that be? I don't believe it. Sure, I understand where they're coming from, the shameful history that looms large in their minds. But it's also history, isn't it? The United States is something different, something better, in late 2006 than what it was before. Which is why the coming presidential election will be so interesting. I would not bet on it, personnaly speakin'.

 

[chrismarie31]

Good afthernoon.

Is the sun shining to you? What do you do tonight?

 

[9millimetres]

Good afthernoon.

Is the sun shining to you? What do you do tonight?

No the sun ain't shinin' at all. Rain happens quite frequently here. Weather really fucks me off. It's fucking down in London this afternoon, and I've never stepped in so many puddles in my entire life. Kind from you, to ask me out but we don't really live in the same city, besides even we did......
Try not to be off topic. :wink2:

 

[chrismarie31]

Try not to be off topic. :wink2:

No, I uttelly don't want! :biggrin:

 

[9millimetres]

No, I uttelly don't want!  :biggrin:

While, I think you do. Aint you supposed to be at school or somethin'?
Ok, I've just seen you were on the lookout of a job. I think you should consider gettin' some experience first, otherwize you;ll fail to get a job. The problem with french system is, firms don't give any opportunity to young graduate. It's a catch. Dunno how you'll get out of this viscious circle. Where have you been for your placement. Just curious?